Buen dia mi gente, and welcome to La Vida Más Chévere de Childfree Latinas, the only Spanglish podcast for childfree Latinas y Latines helping us liberate ourselves from the toxic cultural brainwashing we all grew up with so that we can design our best lives instead. I'm your host and resident childfree Latina Paulette Erato. Mis amigues I am so happy that you finally get to hear this interview today. I've wanted to have Angela on the show for a long while now. We'll get into how we met and why that's important later in the episode, like at the tail end. But what sparked this conversation is that she once mentioned to me that the default assumption that because she's a lesbian, she wouldn't have kids, made her feel some kind of way. And even though she doesn't want kids at all, there's still some social conditioning there that she's working through. If you were also a teenager in the nineties, you might remember how gay rights were a huge issue back then, kind of the way trans rights are today. Something that we were constantly fighting for. It seems like every generation gets a fight. It also feels like no matter how many steps forward we make with progress, it all just keeps getting ripped away from us. And it sucks. But Angela made an interesting parallel between being gay and being childfree. And how her show like this one, can help parents especially come to terms with their children's new lives, which may be different from what the parents envisioned and how it's okay to have feelings about that. But in the end, and I say this with all the love, we need you to get on board. Going back to the social conditioning, we also have a conversation about the term selfish and how it's so easily slapped on as a stereotype to childfree people, and the danger that poses, the toxic cultural norms around that. In real time, you're gonna hear Angela have a eureka moment about it, and it's a beautiful thing that you're gonna get to witness too. So lock in, because we're about to get into it. Hey, Angela, thank you for joining me. Thank you for joining me. You are right. I didn't even get that and it's my own podcast name. See, it's so normal and natural to our podcast world that I didn't even get it. Which is perfect. I love interviewing other podcasters, especially ones that say things in their bio, like I'm into all things Bravo TV. What does that mean exactly? All the Housewives and the after shows. The Housewife franchises, the Vanderpump Rules, that is my number one. Just anything that's on Bravo. It's likely that I've seen it and I watch it. The only thing I haven't seen is Below Deck for some reason. I'm not into that one, but everything else, yes. So Angela, you're here to talk about being childfree and gay, which is a conversation we've had offline many times. I've had other people on the show who are also gay and childfree, but you made an interesting comment to me one time that was, my parents didn't expect me to have children because I'm gay. And you had feelings about that. Yes, and I think it really isn't so much about my parents not expecting me to, more so as like the time in which I grew up and the time that they were young parents. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like this is 30 years ago when I'm coming out to myself and coming out to them. I think that just was a time where we were all conditioned. That, you know, if somebody was gay that came with certain, I don't wanna say sacrifices 'cause that's not the right word, but, and expectations is not the right word either, but it's like this inherent thing that, oh, you're gay, you're probably not gonna have kids. You know, that's just a instant assumption. Mm-hmm. You're not gonna have the 2.5 kids and white picket fence and all that good stuff. All the things we're conditioned to believe we're supposed to have and that route we're supposed to go. Mm-hmm. So I can't even say, I don't blame that my parents for feeling like, oh, you're not gonna have kids. And assuming that my sister who is straight would be the one to have kids, because I think we were just all conditioned to think that way. Me included. Mm-hmm. When I realized I was gay, I never thought about having a family. I didn't have people around me actually who were examples of that. So I think that's a big thing too. Mm-hmm. Because I have some friends, one childhood friend who has his husband and two kids, and they have a beautiful family. And I always think we grew up around a similar time. Our families were close to each other, but we were like distant enough to where we both had different experiences. Right? And especially going off to college. Two totally different places. And I think, he probably experienced a world where he could have certain things. Mm-hmm. As a gay person, where in my world I was just conditioned that I could not have those things. So I didn't really think about it, but honestly it didn't bother me, Paulette, because I didn't wanna have kids any anyway. So I think it just really didn't bother me.'cause I was like, oh, okay. It solved a problem, I guess. Do you know what I mean? It's not necessarily a problem, but it was like, well, I don't really wanna have kids anyway. Okay. And it just worked out. I think it's interesting because I remember the nineties when I was a teenager, we're about the same age. So you know, we had probably similar conditioning. And that, being gay, you're in a box. You're put in this box. And if you don't fit in that box, people don't understand how to connect with you, understand you, all these things and it's like you're still a person. You're still a person. Yeah. And I think in the intervening 30 years, we've made some progress in understanding that the box which we put gay people in, in the nineties or prior, that doesn't exist. And we need to break all of those boxes down. Yes. Because they wanna box us up in so many different ways. Right? Yeah. You're a woman, so X, Y, Z, you're gay. So X, Y, Z. And what if those two boxes contradict one another? Then where's your box? Fuck the boxes is basically what I'm trying to say. They're a toxic cultural holdover. Right. And there's a difference when you choose not to have children'cause that's your choice. Mm-hmm. And that's the path you wanna take versus feeling like you can't have them because that's what your world told you. Right. Those are two different spaces. So let me ask you, going back to, you said you didn't want children, so it was okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But did you come to that realization before or after you realized you're gay? Before. I vividly remember being in high school, this was when I didn't know I was gay. This moment where I was like, oh yeah, I'm straight. I mean, I had no clue. I really didn't. I think everybody knew before I did. But I vividly remember in high school there was this movie that they showed us. It was like The Cycle of Life or something like that. Did you ever see this? I don't remember to tell you the truth. All I know is we are watching this woman literally have a child on screen. And it was traumatic, it was awful. And I was like, immediately, I knew that I never wanted to experience that. I was like, there is no way I physically wanna experience it. And I never had that connection. You know how like a lot of people, or a lot of women specifically, will be like, you know, I've always dreamt of my wedding or my children or what have you. I never had that feeling with children specifically. Mm-hmm. And so then when I see this movie. It's a hard no for me. Like I'm not going this route. And we talked a lot about it, conditioning, and I think I was just so conditioned that I was supposed to be married in this part of my life to a man.'cause that's what the world told me. Mm. And. Well, I'm also supposed to have kids, and since I don't wanna actually have kids, then I was like, well, well what then? And so then of course I start thinking, well, adoption sounds really nice, so that sounds really great. And then somewhere in there, everything just came to a screeching halt. Once I realized, oh, I'm gay. Now I have to rethink everything because Uhhuh, none of that mattered. Yeah. I think it's very interesting that when you decide you don't want children, maybe adoption becomes a thing because we're talking about the birthing process, right? Right. Yes. And I'm with you. That's sounds like something I don't wanna experience either. And it's an interesting bingo that gets thrown at us as well. And for anybody listening who doesn't know what a bingo is, it's those very common questions or attacks sometimes that are thrown at childfree people, and they're so common and happens so often, you can create a bingo card out of them. So it's like a game. Oh, who will take care of you when you're older? Do you hate kids? You're so selfish. Those are three different bingos. Another one is, well, you can always adopt, which has been said to me true. And. Here's the thing. It's not just about not wanting to go through the birthing process. It's also about not wanting to raise a human. We need to be a lot more aware that having a child is not a one stop shop. That's a whole ass human. That is a whole ass person that you are now responsible for making sure can make it in this world successfully. However that looks for you, but that's a lot. I think that for those of you listening, who would be like, but why not just adopt? I want you to sit and think before you say those words to another childfree person. Especially to a person who's having trouble conceiving because that is pretty heartless. Yeah. I don't even remember when exactly I was thinking this, like what my mindset was at this time. I just remember at some point I thought. I don't wanna be a parent, not because it doesn't sound great, 'cause sure that sounds great, have a family, et cetera. But I really understood the work involved. That's a major, I don't wanna say job, but responsibility. It's a financial responsibility. It's an emotional responsibility. I can't imagine worrying about something that is a part of me, yet external to me. Mm-hmm. There was just so much emotion involved and I thought, I can't do that. It not only wasn't that I didn't want to experience it, but I also knew that I don't think. I could do that job to the degree that it needed to be done. And I would look around and think, do all these people understand that to be a parent is a huge thing? It's a huge responsibility and it requires such selflessness and such sacrifice. And I thought, I don't wanna do that because I just wanna live my peaceful life and go travel. And it sounded so selfish and I felt like something was wrong, feeling like that for a long time. You know? It was like, oh, that's such a selfish way to feel, but it was my truth. I just didn't want to do that. It was a lot of work, and it's not that I couldn't do it, it wasn't for me. Oh yeah. When you get told, oh, you'd be a great mother. Yeah, you know what? I would be. And resent every single moment of it. And a child, multiple children, a full ass grown adult that child would grow into being, doesn't deserve that kind of parent. Yeah. They should have parents who are enthusiastic about raising children. People like you and me should not have children. For whatever reasons we have, the end result is we would make bad parents. Even if we raised good kids and good adults, we would be so unhappy, and that is really something that needs to be reckoned with. Just because it is this social norm to be a parent, doesn't mean that everyone's good at it. Yeah. I have like literally two of the best parents in the world, and my dad and I, we've always gone roller skating, like often time. Oh, that fun. We haven't been in a while, but I mean he's 75, but we'll go skating. We've always had that connection and he's always been present. My mom too, but just this specific scenario with skating. As an adult, as a 50-year-old and going around the rink. I'm skating with my dad or next to my dad or what have you, and I'll see like these little kids and their parents are off in the distance reading a book or doing whatever, and I am like, I don't know. I've never been a parent, but I feel like you need to be, if you can't skate, at least be engaged. At least watch your kiddo and encourage them and celebrate the fact that, hey, they went around a couple times and didn't fall. I don't know. Yeah, and I think if the opportunity happened in my life where if my partner, who I'm with right now, if she had children coming into the relationship or something, that would've been fine with me, to be honest. It wasn't that I was against having children, it's just if it was something that was my choice, I knew I didn't really want to go that route. But if life happened to where that was a situation, I was pretty positive, and I still am pretty positive that I would be pretty good at it, you know? Mm-hmm. But I think you're right. It would be like, oh, this is not really what I wanted or what I wanted for myself. But we're good people and we would know how to be present with that person and how to encourage them in, in a way that kids deserve to be encouraged in their life. A hundred percent. It's just the other side of what it would do to me personally. Yeah. So let's talk more about dating. Okay. While childfree, since you brought up that if your partner had children, yeah. You would be open to it. I used to believe that as well about myself. Mm-hmm. Because I did date men with children until the last time I dated a man with a child. And it was the person right before I met my husband. He was not a great dad. And that's another thing like finding a partner is difficult enough on its own. Yeah. So now you are thinking, I don't want kids, but if they have kids. Okay. That's something to consider. How good of a parent are they? That's so true. That's where I drew my line. I'm like, okay, I'm not entertaining this situation anymore. Men with children. I know that sounds harsh, but again, it's about knowing yourself and knowing your boundaries. Knowing that you're childfree is a boundary. It's just you know yourself that well. And I think that's a gift that you get to give yourself the knowledge of yourself. And I may not know myself really well in other areas of my life, but that's when I don't have to second guess. Yeah. I never need validation. There's no imposter-itis around it. Yeah. Did you date anyone with children prior to meeting your partner? I didn't, actually. I didn't. So I never had that experience of what kind of a parent is this other person, but you bring up something really. Important that I didn't think about, which this is why I couldn't be a parent.'cause I'm just so selfish. I'm like, it's all about me. I didn't think about, oh, what is the other person? What are they like as a parent as well? Yeah. That would have a huge impact on whether or not I wanted to experience that in that manner. But going back to what you said, like ultimately it wasn't something I wanted, period. You know? Yeah. Yeah. You have pets, correct? I do. I am a fur baby mom. And that is great for me and I feel like that's an expensive choice as well. And yeah, I bet it impacts my travel also. But I do have a built-in babysitter with my partner 'cause she actually doesn't like to travel. So Yeah. So she's just, you can go wherever you wanna go. That is totally fine. I will be here with the baby and I'm like, great. It actually does work out. With the baby. I love it. Yeah, and he is a very spoiled baby. Very spoiled. What kind of dog? Corgi. Oh yes. He's very stubborn. Very stubborn, very selfish, also. The world revolves around him and he knows it. I notice you keep saying that about yourself, and I challenge you to rethink that because is it selfish or self-aware? You are right. That's a good important distinction. I think using the word selfish is also a conditioned thing. Yeah. One of those toxic cultural norms. It really is. And you know, there are a lot of them. There are, there's so many of them. I will never run out of topics for this podcast. But I think that the language we use to describe ourselves is, is important because giving credence to the idea that being childfree is selfish. Okay? But so is being a parent. Especially those people that are like, no, it has to have my genes. What is more selfish? But aside from all of that, humans are inherently selfish. We are, that's just how we're built. So true. It doesn't really matter whether you have children or don't, you're still a selfish individual. So I, I would really love to remove that word from the conversation around childfree people and absolving everybody who has kids of it, because I don't think that's true or fair. Both. You're right. And it's so funny 'cause I'm thinking where does that mindset come from? And it's almost like in a nonchalant way, you say it in a way that isn't meaningful, even though it very much is. But I think like number one, there's this inherent shame that we don't really realize. Hmm. Oh, I didn't have kids. So there's this like inherent shame and you lighten it up by saying, oh, I'm too selfish to be a parent. I'm too selfish to do that. And it's like this just like nonchalant thing to say, but it's not, you're right. When I say it, it's very meaningful and I don't realize that. And it's not just meaningful to me, like what I'm saying back to myself. Mm-hmm. It's also telling another person who's probably a parent of, oh yeah. Anybody who chose to be childfree, they're too selfish to do what I do. I didn't realize that till you just said it, so thank you. You are welcome. It's one that's always gotten my goat, and I'm not the best childfree advocate. I'm an advocate for making your own choices and realizing you have choices in the first place. If that means you end up being childfree mm-hmm. Great for you. It's great for me, but I'm not trying to recruit you to my side. I'm just trying to make sure you know there are choices and that's enough. So I don't engage in those conversations. Do you? Not really, now that I think about it, not really. I just step away from it. You know what's weird is as we're talking about it, I'm thinking I'm really not a part of that conversation. And what's very interesting is the reason I don't feel like I'm a part of the conversation is because I feel very othered still. Hmm. So in a lot of circumstances I'm thinking about like, maybe family members who have kids when a birthday party situation or something. It's almost like, because I don't have kids, I'm just not a part of that conversation, and then the conversation's not given to me as well, if that makes any sense. Yes. So there's really no opportunity to have that experience that you just talked about. Maybe it's happening, but it's not an actual conversation. But it is in the environment where, now that I think about it, I feel other, not, maybe not so much because I'm gay, but maybe it's 'cause I don't have kids. So it's the, it's this assumption that I don't understand the dynamic. Mm. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Yes, I do. It's interesting you say you still feel othered. Mm-hmm. Is it because you're gay or is it because you're childfree, or are you feeling othered in other ways? No, it's always because I'm gay, truthfully. Ah, truthfully. Mm-hmm. I'm, I feel. Even right now, you know, I was looking outside just before we were recording this and I was telling you about how my neighbor was mowing the lawn and stuff. And I was thinking, okay, at later after we record, I actually need to get out there. My partner and I need to get out there and fix the flower bed, et cetera. And I was thinking we are like one of three gay couples that I know of in this neighborhood. Mm-hmm. And I think my neighbors around me. I don't know their story to a certain degree, you know, I know high level, but I'm like, maybe I'm the only gay person they know. And maybe we're the only gay couple they know. And they're very much looking to us, I think, or this is the story I've told myself of, oh, that couple, they're just like us. They work on the lawn. They're just like we do, they do, et cetera, et cetera. The only thing we don't have are kids. And I sometimes worry that I wish we were, we did have kids or some way of demonstrating that we are exactly the same as they are because that's so much of what I go through all the time, you know, is I, I feel like I'm always trying to demonstrate that I'm not in any, any different than anybody else. My relationship is not any different than anybody else, but I feel like there is a difference when a straight couple chooses not to have children, and then when a gay couple chooses not to have children. There's a little bit of a difference there, and I feel it. So that other feeling is always just, it's just there all the time. It's gotten better over time, but it's always like a little thread. Yeah, sure. Yeah. But I can see how the identity of being gay, being a lesbian. Mm-hmm. Overshadows the rest of it. Part of it is the conditioning we talked about from the nineties, and a lot of people Yeah. Grew up with that conditioning. Wow. To feel like you have to prove that you're just like the other people. That you're, I'm just like you. I'm not a threat. I'm, or whatever it is. That's that feeling. That feels tough. It does, and it's very strange because it's not like anybody around me makes me feel that way, everybody. Mm-hmm. I'm specifically thinking of my experience in this neighborhood. I've, we just moved into this house three years ago. All of my neighbors are lovely. It's wonderful. It's great. I do always feel. Like I, I like, I want to represent well for my community. Mm-hmm. And maybe a lot of that is because I didn't have examples of that growing up. Right. So I definitely wanna be an example and a lot of times I look beyond them, and I think, well, they have little kids who see these two women living on the corner over here and they're learning from just watching us. They're like, oh, two women can be together, and there's no problem with that. And hopefully their parents aren't saying anything inside of their home. Hopefully it's something encouraging or something. But I feel like even though I don't have kids, when I think about things like legacy and I think about things like, like the next generation. I'm aware that sometimes maybe my impact is on the younger generations in my family, but maybe my impact is on the people around me. You know what we didn't touch on? What's that? Is being Latina part of the otherness? Because I know you live in Texas. Yeah. Right. That's a whole different ball of wax. Yes, it is. How does being Latina does, is that an identity one that you have, and two, how does it impact the rest of everything else being gay or being childfree, or does it at all? That's such a good question. I don't think that being Latina has affected the mindset. Or my mindset of choosing to be childfree, but maybe it has now that I think about it because, no, I'm taking it back. Sorry. I'm gonna erase it as I say it. I think it's just a natural thing. Like with my parents, they have two kids, my sister and I. And my sister is younger than I am and neither one of us have children. Mm-hmm. And, but for my sister, it's choice. And for me it's also a choice, but it's different. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And I think that it's has nothing to do with culture. I don't even think it has anything to do with being gay. I think that, my parents by this point, I've been gay for a very long time. So I think they realized that if I wanted to have children in my life, then there, obviously there's choices that I would need to make. And there it's a little more challenging than for my sister. I'll just put it that way. Mm-hmm. But I think it's more for them, they just want kids in their life in general. And that's been a little bit of a challenge because we both chose not to have kids for whatever reason, and we're surrounded by people who, at this point, they have grandchildren and stuff. So I know that's a little bit difficult for my parents. And sometimes I think maybe it's because, you know, a traditional Hispanic family, they, they have lots of kids or what have you. You know, my grandmother had nine brothers and sisters, and in my family it's just me and my sister. And I always felt like we didn't have enough children. I was like, were we supposed to have more mom? Or there's supposed to be more of us. But, I just think that it's, it has nothing to do with anything other than at this point, a parent, whether it's a parent of a gay person, a straight person, a Latina, non-Latino. You just wanna be a grandparent. So that's been a little difficult to navigate. They don't say much, but it's always like a little bit of a sadness. Oh, I'm sorry. You feel like you disappointed somebody, you know what I mean? Hmm. But I recently heard this thing, Viola Davis said this, uh, I love Viola Davis. And she recently said something. Where she was like, I firmly believe you need to disappoint people in your life because the most important person you shouldn't disappoint is yourself. Now I'm paraphrasing, but it's, this is basically the gist of it. She was like, if you're disappointing other people 'cause you're not doing what they wanted you to do, great. Because you are supposed to disappoint them and you're not supposed to disappoint yourself. And I'm like, yes. Yes. Again, that's self-awareness. Exactly. Yes. It aligns perfectly with that. Viola Davis. I know, right? She's awesome. I've even listening to a podcast with her right now. It's The Talk Easy podcast. It's one of my favorites and she's the guest and I'm like stopping the podcast to write down all of her gems. I'm like, I wanna do this. How do I do this? This is great. Um, you're doing it right now. Thank you. Someone, one's gonna listen to this podcast and they're gonna have to keep pausing to take notes on you. Oh, I hope so. That'd be so nice. Going back to talking about legacy, that is one of those bingos mm-hmm. Those common questions were asked, how does that look for you? What does that mean to you? I think I've finally accepted, there might be ways in which I impact, that's the way I see legacy as an impact. Mm-hmm. There might be ways in which I impact a younger generation. Like I said, the kids in my family maybe, or some people around me. I have an impact on them and I may not even know it. I think I've just finally come to terms with the fact that it looks different for me or for those of us who choose not to have children in our lives because we can't directly see it all the time. If I had a kid, maybe I could see the way in which, you know, my wisdom that I imparted upon them, they came and gave me a gem right back at me, and I'm like, I taught them that. They got that from me. They're so awesome. I may not see that directly, obviously, but I do feel like legacy is, it just looks different and it's not a bad thing. I don't feel sad about it. I don't feel like something's missing. I feel like my legacy is in the podcast or in things I write, or like I said, family members. It's different. But it's the same at the same time. I think impact is so important, and I'm glad that's what you focus on too. You know, we make legacy to be this huge, ultimate ideal. And your legacy starts now, not when you're dead. It starts with who are you affecting. Exactly. And that circle can be very small. It could be one person, but that's one person's life you changed. Before we started recording, you mentioned that you are now mentoring somebody in podcasting. You are now empowering someone to start their own podcast and have their own voice and feel the power of that. That is not a small thing. And I'm sure that's just the first of many or maybe just the only one you know about right now. Right. Yes. Because how important is it to have a podcast that is called The Gay Podcast for Everyone? It's not like gay people are suddenly going to stop existing just because certain subsections of the public want them to. That's so stupid. It's just like gay people exist. You might as well just accept it. And it's okay that you are not gay. This show is still for you. That's what I love about your show, that it's for everyone. Thank you. And I mean, you're right. I'd like to think that the stories we are sharing on our podcasts do have a positive impact or a strong impact on somebody to where we may not know what that impact is. We may not know that trickle down effect, but that is a way in which we're making a huge connection and leaving little deposits of legacy while we are here. Right. Uhhuh, but can I share with you another Viola gem that has everything to do with what you just said? Yes. Because I, this is another thing I wrote down. She says, your purpose in life is not what you do. It's what happens to people when you do what you do. And I was like, oh yes, that's impact. It is. Going back to your parents talking about grandchildren. So do they actively talk about wanting grandchildren or is this just something that you feel that you wish you could give them? Yeah, they don't actively talk about it with me. I don't think they talk about it with my sister either. She'd probably mention it. I think they both respect the fact that both me and my sister just choose not to have children for whatever reason. For my sister is a different reason than for me, but I think that they've just accepted that. And they don't really ask out of just respect, but I can tell that they are a little sad about it. And we used to have the conversations like back in the day, I guess. Mm-hmm. You have them initially, but then they just fizzled out. They very much accepted it now. Which is nice of them.'cause it's a lot less stressful when they don't mention it. Even if they do feel it. Yeah, it's a lot less stressful. You feel like you're not disappointing somebody. And it's not that we disappointed them, I don't think it's a disappointment not to have grandchildren, I'm sure. But I don't think we disappointed them. Do you know what I mean? That is an important distinction. This is something important that everyone listening, especially parents, I want you to take to heart. If your parents envisioned a world where they would have grandchildren and that didn't come to pass, they are allowed to feel grief around that. Mm-hmm. And so any parent listening right now, my mother actually said this on the show, that if life didn't turn out for your children the way you wanted it to, again, this is part of being a parent, letting them make their own decisions and build their own lives and make themselves successful by their metrics. You as the parent, are allowed to feel grief around that. What you shouldn't be doing is laying that grief at the feet of your children as an added burden. And I loved when she said that because sometimes people need to hear it from another parent. And it sounds like at first your parents were, you said you were having these conversations and then it fizzled out because maybe they just made peace with it. Right. And honestly, Paulette, that very much aligns with my podcast, The Gay Podcast for Everyone. It is about the fact that when we come out, our parents also have a similar journey. So where we were in the closet feeling like, you know, we are alone. Who's gonna understand, et cetera. When we give that information over to our parents, they might feel the exact same things, but in a different timeline. And it's really about the empathy for that connection of I'm in a place where I'm at peace with who I am. I recognize that it might take you a minute to be at peace with who I am as well, and also who you are now. You are the parent of a gay person. You always were, and I was always gay too. Neither one of us knew it, you know, in most circumstances. It kind of aligns with what you're saying too of, of going through that journey. I thought my child was going to have this direction in life, and it's just looks a little different. There's nothing wrong with it. It just looks different than what I thought it was gonna be. And just going through that journey, feeling at peace with where things are and knowing that everything is as it's supposed to be. I think that there's like a, there's an empathy. There's like this mutual empathy that needs to happen between a parent and a child in the circumstance of coming out. But also in the circumstance of us choosing not to have children where our parents can empathize with, well, I chose to have children. What were my reasons for having children? And what are my child's reasons for not choosing that? And then also us saying, I don't wanna have kids. I wanna live, have a little more of a carefree life. And I, maybe that's just something that I'm not comfortable with, but I recognize that maybe this is a difficult thing for my parents. Maybe this is a hard thing and I need to give them a little bit of time to come to terms with the fact that they're gonna have fur, baby grandkids. Surprise. How many fur baby grandkids do they have? Just one right now. Just the corgi. Angela, thank you for having this conversation with me. Thank you for joining me for this conversation today because it opened my eyes about what childfree looks like in other communities. And all I know is my own experience and what I love about having a podcast and interviewing childfree Latinas, is the diversity and this beautiful wealth of information you all come with and your experiences that you bring to all the listeners. So thank you for that. Thank you. Is there anything else that we should share with the audience? Tell us. All of your podcast links will be in the show notes. Oh, yes. Thank you for that, by the way. I would love for anybody to join either one of my podcasts. The Gay Podcast for Everyone is for everyone. Anybody who wants to just hear more stories about people's experiences either coming out or actually being a parent or family member who's learning how to be a better ally. That's really mm-hmm. Where the focus is of that podcast. So it's been really fun for me too, because I've learned a lot as a person, much less as a gay person. You know, I mean, we talk so much about seeing the other side of things and being empathetic. That is very much the foundation for that podcast. So I would love for anybody to join. It's The Gay Podcast for Everyone. And then my other podcast, if you're interested in learning about the mindset, when you start sitting down behind the mic, it's called, Thank You for Joining Me. And it's very much about what keeps us showing up behind that microphone. It is easy to start and it's difficult to keep going. A lot of it has to do with the stories we tell ourselves and the mindset that we have. So it's very much about community, which is how you and I met. Yeah, should probably mentioned that Latinas In Podcasting is what brought us together! Latinas In Podcasting. Yes. Did you know when you were looking for people to pitch themselves for the summit? I almost didn't do it. Oh. And I often think, oh my gosh, what if I hadn't done that? You know, I wouldn't have all these wonderful experiences, all these wonderful connections and things that I really needed, especially at that particular time. Podcasting is a lonely space sometimes. Mm-hmm. A lot of us don't have co-hosts or people to kinda walk us through things. We're learning things on our own. So Latinas In Podcasting has been just a saving space for me. So thank you and thank you for creating it. And I just love that we get to chat like this. Me too. Yeah, me too. And see, for anyone who is wanting to start a podcast, this is what Latinas In Podcasting is all about. The connection and the collaboration. Mm-hmm. I didn't know Angela before she submitted that proposal last year. And look at this! Now, we're on each other's podcast. We're in community together. We share resources. I got an interview in a magazine because of her, just because she mentioned my name to someone. Like how awesome is that? Speak the names of your friends in rooms that they don't have access to yet, and then bring them into the room. Because that's how we all win. Yeah. Thank you so much for that, by the way. But I love that, that you entered the community with that same spirit. And that's a burrito Hey mira. If this episode made you feel some kind of way, dígame. DM me on Instagram or send me a text. You can do that right from your phone. If you wanna be a guest on the show and put your story out there too, check out the guest form on my website at pauletterato.com slash guest. Yep. Just my name, pauletterato.com/guest. Y no se te olvide que hay más perks when you join the newsletter. Todos estos links en los show notes. Muchísimas gracias for your support y hasta la próxima vez, cuídate bien.