[00:00] Paulette: Buen día y welcome to The Maker Muse Podcast, the place where childfree Spanglish-speaking mujeres fuertes are inspired to find their confidence through creativity. I’m Paulette Erato, the Maker Muse.

[00:14] On today’s episode, I’m speaking with Jess Chavolla. She’s a young artist, who’s originally from Mexico, though she grew up here in Los Angeles. Even though she’s only in her twenties, Jess’s life experience, though painful at times, has led her to create a vision of a world for women in unconventional fields, offering them support and resources for creating their own networks outside of the ones dominated by men.

[00:36] She’s a musician, marketer, small business owner, survivor, and advocate, just to name a few of the many roles in her life thus far. And I think you’re gonna find her full of surprises. I do wanna give you a heads up that Jess will mention abuse and bullying throughout the episode. So please be aware we are going to enter some sensitive areas.

[00:55] Hello, everybody to another episode of the make muse podcast. I’m here today with my guest, Jess Chavolla who I met at an art fair. So you already know that she’s an artist. Let’s just put that out there, right Jess?

[01:09] Jess: Yes.

[01:11] Paulette: We met at an art fair at a brewery. So this is gonna be a good time. Hi Jess. Thank you for being here.

[01:16] Jess: Thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure meeting you and the fact that you have this going on, I was so ready for this.

[01:23] Paulette: Oh, that’s so awesome to hear. So, yeah, Jess, why don’t you tell us a little bit about you, where we can find you online, and what being childfree has meant for your life up to this point.

[01:34] Jess: Perfect. Okay. So my name’s Jess Chavolla. I’m 25 and I’ve been pretty much a resident of SoCal forever, except for like the first couple years where I lived in Mexico. And so I know what it’s like to be, you know, on both sides in Mexico, in California, and with family divided between both places. But right now, what I’m doing with my life is running a company called Touch of Evil Decor.

[01:59] That’s our name on all platforms, Pinterest, Instagram, everything. And I also run a side hustle called Venus Enigma. Venus dot enigma is how you’ll find us on any platform. Touch of Evil Decor is Gothic decor handmade by me and my boyfriend. It’s mainly coffins and moons and anything to just spice up your living room for people who don’t get to buy that shit at TJ Maxx.

[02:22] Paulette: And I have one, I really like my cosmic moon with all the candles in it.

[02:27] Jess: Thank you. I know you were like the only person that bought something from us. No, it’s totally fine. Breweries are not our bag, but I was like, yay. I’m glad I know you’re gonna use it .You look like the type who is just gonna relish that thing. So I’m so happy.

[02:41] But yeah, I’ve been doing that with my boyfriend. He’s the main carpenter. I paint and design some of the things when I can. I do all of the social media and marketing and talking amongst people, price making, things like that.

[02:53] The Venus Enigma page is just under construction right now, but it’s for me to get women who own businesses. This is mainly who I’m catered to business owners. As well as women who are in male dominated industries mainly. Because it’s really tough. I mean, it’s getting more open. There needs to be a word out there. I’ve I’ve been a musician. I was a welder. And I always had an interest in cars. So that’s why I wanted to direct some kind of boss babe page that wasn’t pink.

[03:20] And it wasn’t all about manicures. Sometimes we like to get down in the dirt and talk about our day, have a beer.

[03:26] Paulette: Yes, beer.

[03:28] In this next section, Jess talks about how the abject misogyny she grew up in emboldened her to seek out a decidedly male-dominated profession. In spite of the lack of support. What she describes might resonate with many other Latines who may have grown up in similar circumstances.

[03:44] Can we talk about welding please? Because I’ve never met a welder and that seems so dangerous. Please tell me how you got into that.

[03:50] Jess: Yes, absolutely. So I was always a tomboy growing up and I remember when I told my mom what I wanted to do, I’ve been all over the place I want, I still ultimately wanna be a forensic toxicologist.

[04:02] So basically a corner. But in the meantime, I thought, what better way to do something than to go to a school where it’s kind of fast and I can get a really good paying job with a good union and then afford school. So I told my mom, Hey, I’m into mechanics, I’m into welding. And maybe I can get a job with my brother-in-law. And do some construction with him .

[04:19] And she straight up was like, no, that’s a man’s job. I want you to be a domestic violence lawyer, something that she wants to be. So I was like, okay, no, you’re not gonna support me at all. So that’s what kind of got me even more fired up and pushed into doing it. So I told the rest of my family and none of them wanted to help me.

[04:35] They’re all very handy men, these Latinos, you know. And they’re like, just to show me that’s not something I should be doing with my life, they refused to help me in any way, shape or form.

[04:44] Paulette: Hmm.

[04:45] Jess: So that was unfortunate. And it’s okay because I look back and I’m kind of grateful because I pushed myself and I learned way more than I ever could have doing it on my own than with family. So I got into welding that way from a friend who told me: Hey, this is what you wanna do? This is a school I went to it’s free. And all you have to do is, you know, email them, sign up. And that’s what I did. And I got three certifications. I got MIG welding certified, dual shield welding certified, and TIG welding certified.

[05:13] I had surgery, so I haven’t been able to use my credentials, but yeah, it’s been a long time. Welding is fun though. I saw a couple women in my class as well. Three other women, was beautiful. And it is dangerous only if you don’t know what you’re doing. In my opinion, anybody can weld. I encourage so many women to do it.

[05:32] It’s so much fun and it’s a little dangerous, but it’s such a good paying job. You’re always gonna have anywhere to work. If you have a certification in America, you can work all over the world. So I definitely try to tell women about this.

[05:43] Paulette: That is so cool. And it’s a free school.

[05:47] Jess: Yes, I will recommend them. It’s called Reignite Hope. You can find them on Instagram. They’re getting bigger and bigger, like crazily. So it’s harder to get in. But it’s ran by a church, beautiful people. I, myself, I don’t identify with the religion and they don’t push it on you. And they’re just such amazing people. I have to shout them out and I’m so grateful for them because they were patient and taught me so much.

[06:07] And I got certified out of there. And it was free. You just pay for your certifications at the end, which are like $50 apiece.

[06:13] Paulette: Wow. Okay. So I can go to welding school is what you’re telling me.

[06:16] Jess: Yes. Ma’am. I will walk you through the doors. It’s here in Los Angeles then, right? Oh yeah. It’s off Figueroa and Gardena.

[06:22] Paulette: Oh, that’s awesome. So welding. Did not see welding coming.

[06:29] For more information on Reignite Hope, the welding organization that Jess mentions, please check out the link in the show notes. They do offer free classes to those who demonstrate financial need. And it appears they focus on servicing young minorities in the south LA area. So if you’d like more information on the school or to donate to the organization, check out the link in the show notes. Again, the name of the organization is Reignite Hope.

[06:53] Um, I’m really intrigued by the Venus Enigma too, and so we should talk about that as well. But tell me how you even came to the decision that you’re not having children. Is that, is that a thing that even played a big part in your life?

[07:07] Jess: Yes, I okay. I know, as a kid, I played with dolls before I was six, seven, and I knew I wanted a kid, I would push one around whatever.

[07:14] Then my brother was born. And of course he pees on me and ruins everything. So I remember that moment, like it happened yesterday. He peed on me and I was like, oh mom, does this happen? She’s like, oh yeah, you, you bit my boob. I couldn’t breastfeed. Yeah. All these horror stories. And I was like, so why did you do it?

[07:30] I’m not doing that ever. So I, in my like, understanding as a kid, I think I was around 10 when I had this conversation, I was like, why do women do that? Look at me, I’m a punk ass kid. I know I caused some trouble. Like I know it’s not easy to raise us. And my little brother is crazy. So I’m like, you know what?

[07:45] I don’t think it’s for me, let me, um, focus on my sports and stuff. I was a really ambitious kid. So I think from then on, I knew. And I didn’t realize that that’s just an identity I carried after that. It just, I remember that as a memory moved on and then all my friends are getting, you know, pregnant and having kids and starting families.

[08:04] And it never interested me ever. And it wasn’t even a topic of conversation until I started to date Alex, really. Cuz before that I was like, I don’t need men. I’ve had bad experiences with y’all and I don’t trust y’all to raise any kids. So I always felt like this is gonna be my life and I felt fulfilled.

[08:21] And I knew that… I mean, like I said, I’m a musician, so I wasn’t a band actively and I’m like, I’m not gonna be able to play music if I have a kid. And I’m not gonna wait until I’m done with my prime as a musician to have a kid cuz then I’ll be too old to function with them and chase them around. And so I was like, you know what, no, this is the life for me.

[08:37] And I get to have kids in my life and then put them back. So if they’re not my responsibility and that’s, that was always okay with me. There was never a topic of me changing my mind.

[08:45] Paulette: Yeah. Being at tía is awesome. Like you get to spoil them. And then, you know, when they get tired, they go back to mom and dad even.

[08:53] Jess: Yeah, exactly.

[08:55] Paulette: Even as adults. Because my older brothers, kids are already in college and as adults, they are, it’s still like, they’ll come to you when they need you. And then the rest of the time, you can just fuck off. It’s like, it’s fine. So it takes a village and I’m fine being part of the village. So like you were saying, you, you can give them back. It’s just, well, part of a village.

[09:17] Jess: Yeah, it’s fine to be a part of a village. Kids are, kids are really remedies sometimes. Like children’s laughter, unless it’s in a horror movie, is totally it makes my day, brightens it up. But yeah, being an auntie is like, you get the best of both worlds, like the kids without the responsibility. So it’s fun.

[09:33] Paulette: Oh yeah. I mean, I totally signed up for that. It it’s great.

[09:37] We’re about to jump into a controversial discussion point between parents and non-parents. The topic at hand: children in breweries. You can probably guess on which side of the argument both Jess and I stand. If you’d like to share your viewpoint though, feel free to reach out to me via DM. My Instagram link is always in the show notes.

[09:56] So I have a controversial question for you.

[09:58] Jess: Yes.

[09:58] Paulette: Since we met at a brewery, a horror themed brewery at that, like they do not pull punches at that place. It is Dracula and skeletons and all kinds of like bloody knives and stuff. I’m always surprised when people take their children to breweries, especially one that’s like a dangerous fun house. What about you?

[10:19] Jess: I don’t like to go to a brewery because usually I’ll drink beer and I wanna enjoy myself, but then there’s kids screaming and crying and running around and I’m like, most people wanna leave that environment and go to a brewery to escape that. So why would you bring your kids? But I I’m also like that person. That’s like, it’s not my business, not gonna get into it. I’m just gonna step far away from the child. So it doesn’t interfere with my good time.

[10:42] Paulette: I’ve I get it. Like I’ve spoken to brewery owners and workers and they’re like, well, you know, when you have a family friendly atmosphere, you make more sales. So in order to stay afloat, this is what we have to do. But they don’t necessarily like it.

[10:55] And I’m just, I’m not generalizing. These are just the people I’ve spoken to. I’m not saying that’s true of all brewery owners. I’m just saying that I thought a brewery was like a bar, not a restaurant.

[11:06] Jess: Yes.

[11:07] Paulette: Because a lot of them don’t serve food.

[11:09] Jess: I, I completely agree. I know that it’s a family friendly environment for, and they close early and everything. So they’re hoping that the people who can’t escape their kids will take them along and still spend the money as opposed to people who cannot bring. Like, if they can’t bring their kids, they won’t come and spend the money. So I guess you lose a profit.

[11:26] Paulette: Mm-hmm.

[11:26] Jess: So it is what it is. But if I got to vote for it, I’d say, hell no!

[11:33] Paulette: I saw a post the other day on Facebook where a brewery was doing family friendly Sundays. But all the rest of the time, they were 21 and over, and I was like more of that please.

[11:44] Jess: Where do I sign up for that?

[11:46] Paulette: It was like in Connecticut.

[11:48] Jess: Oh, dang.

[11:50] Paulette: After we got off our soapbox about kids at breweries, we jumped into Jess’s life as a childfree 20 something. Please note again, there will be references to abuse and bullying.

[12:00] Do you feel like, uh, like being childfree, has negatively impacted you at all?

[12:05] Jess: Not at all honest. I mean, like, uh, I’m, it’s never been lonely for me. I’ve always been really like able to fulfill every void I’ve had. I used to work like three jobs, so.

[12:15] I love keeping busy. Absolutely. And I don’t want to keep busy with the kids, so I’m glad. But yeah, no, no negative impacts. I mean, my sister always tells me she wants to be an aunt for my kids, but I have a little brother he’s the last one. It’s three of us. And I’m like, he can have kids that, that kid, he can do all the work for me. I’ll just be in the middle and stay childfree. And yeah, like there’s really nothing that can change my mind, I think. I’ve always felt very strongly about.

[12:45] Paulette: Remember how, in the last episode where I told you my childfree story, I said, you have to be self-aware? You need to know your boundaries and what you will and won’t do in this life?

[12:53] Here’s Jess proving my point for herself. Her sister wants to be an aunt, but it’s not Jess’s responsibility to have a child simply to fulfill her sister’s expectations and her sister’s wants and needs. It’s also not Jess’s brother’s responsibility to fulfill for her sister. Her sister’s expectations and her vision, is for her to manage herself.

[13:14] On this podcast, we believe everybody is creative. So you’ve already given us a little bit of a rundown about what you create, but can you talk more about that?

[13:24] Jess: Yes. So I think ultimately being creative for me stemmed from music mainly. So I don’t know how I got here to building things and doing things with my hands. But I was six years old, got a guitar and literally have never looked back. I’ve been playing ever since then. I’ve been in a couple bands and I work with really amazing, talented female musicians. And I’m, I’m in a death metal band and a thrash punk band right now. So it’s really cool to juggle that artistically and creatively having an outlet.

[13:52] Because I grew up with really tough times and a tough family and, you know, abuse here and there. So it’s like a nice outlet to have. I think that’s what pushes a lot of creative people to really dive into their skills. But as I grew from that, I was like, I need to have a skill that makes me money, you know? So I dove deep into well I like to read. I like to write.

[14:12] I thought I was gonna write some books. This is when I was in middle school and I wrote some really mediocre books, and I just kept going from there. Like I, like, I never had a straight mind, like I always had to, if I couldn’t finish one project, I picked up another. So, um, I literally, I can do resin. I can sew. I play guitar. I weld.

[14:29] I sometimes I build stuff with my man, cuz I know how to use those things, but he just thinks I’m gonna chop my hand. So I don’t with the valid concern, cuz I am the clumsiest human and I…

[14:41] Paulette: But you weld and he doesn’t, he doesn’t trust you with, you know, like saws.

[14:46] Jess: Yeah. I think that he’s more like I’m clumsy because like I said, I have broken my spine. I didn’t break it completely. I had to hurt disc herniate and pinch my nerve, which affected my creativity recently. And it happened during the pandemic. So that’s a whole story in and of itself. But yeah, creativity, I feel like everybody needs it. Everybody can do it because it’s an outlet. And a lot of people, especially women, I feel personally, they feel powerless sometimes with society and with everything expected of us.

[15:16] And it’s a valid concern, like, like how my boyfriend’s concerned about my chopping my hand off. Women do get bashed in the media. We’re expected of way too much. And a lot of misogyny is still out there, no matter how far we’ve progressed. So women do need a creative outlet and to take that power back to themselves and have something.

[15:33] That’s what I used to really get that power back for myself. Like anything that I could do creatively is like, it came from me and you can’t take that from me.

[15:41] Paulette: Preach. Because ah, this podcast is all about finding your confianza through creativity.

[15:49] Jess: Yes.

[15:50] Paulette: Because yes, you, you just hit the nail on the head. And by the way, we did not practice this.

[15:57] Jess: We didn’t.

[15:57] Paulette: We did not practice this, but I’m speaking to a real artist. Somebody who believes her power comes from her creativity. And that is what I want all people to believe. And it doesn’t matter if you’re 25 or 95. Whenever you can start working on your creative power to develop your confidence, start then.

[16:18] Jess: It is a confidence builder.

[16:19] Paulette: You heard it directly from the artist herself. Your power can come from your creative outlet.

[16:26] Finally, it’s the last question I ask all of my guests, because one of the top bingos we get is “who will remember you when you’re gone?” Remember a bingo is one of those off repeated phrases that they say to childfree people, like who will remember you when you’re gone. Listen in on how this 25 year old handles it. Note: she will again, mention bullying and abuse and how that has impacted her desire for a legacy.

[16:53] Let’s talk legacy. I know that you’re only 25 and you have your whole life to figure this out and this might change, but have you given any thought to that word?

[17:01] Jess: Yeah, I actually always thought about legacy growing up. I was a person who like, I’m a very nice extrovert. At least I was growing up and I wanted everybody to feel included because I was bullied and I’ve been through abuse and all that stuff. So I wanted to have parties and celebrate everything, celebrate my friends and myself.

[17:19] And I was always the one that kind of get people together, take pictures and scrapbook. And I loved holding onto memories. I always had a, you know, like a video camera in my hand and that’s just kind of who the person I was. So I was like, oh, I want to build something that I can look back on. And I never thought children were in that definition of legacy to me.

[17:38] Cause people were like, oh, your children are who you leave behind. I’m like, man, they learned shit on the streets and parents never taught them. Sometimes they don’t leave behind the legacy you want. But really I feel like it’s just, you know, there’s autobiographies about people out there and it’s not about their kids or what their kids did.

[17:51] It’s about what they did. Me for me, the legacy I always wanted to leave behind was that I was kind and I was inclusive and I was not the bully that, that bullied me or not the parent that abused me or any of the people that have ever done me wrong. Like I never wanted to change who I was and I have too good of a heart, but it’s like, okay, because that’s just what I wanted to do. I wanted to like build these memories and build my own family. So that that’s the kind of legacy I want is that no matter what life does to you, you can’t change who you are if you like who you are and that’s who you wanna be. I wanna help people and I wanna make people happy. And that way I’m happy.

[18:27] So that’s my legacy.

[18:29] Paulette: So your legacy is that your are putting out that you can be happy with you

[18:34] Jess: mm-hmm

[18:34] Paulette: and just send love to people.

[18:37] Jess: Yeah, you don’t have to have kids to feel not lonely or not loved, or like, have something to leave, like to carry on your name. Most women don’t even get their name carried on. It’s the men. So it’s like, I I’m fulfilled and everybody can be fulfilled and nobody should tell if you wanna have kids. That’s great. That’s but nobody else should make that decision for you. And even if you don’t, you gotta be happy with what you have on your own and leave something behind for the world to know you as. You know, you don’t wanna be like Amber Heard like, oh, that’s what she’s known for now.

[19:06] You know, you wanna find something healthy and not toxic and great. And everyone’s got a little, you know, bad habits in them. Everyone goes through changes in life, but just overall make up for your mistakes and, and leave behind something you’re proud of. And you don’t have to rely on kids to do that.

[19:22] Paulette: Yeah, it’s very true. I mean, Betty White didn’t have children.

[19:25] Jess: Ex girl, and she lived so long. She wasn’t stressed out!

[19:29] Paulette: Right.

[19:30] In case you missed it, in the recent trial between Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, it came out that Amber se cagó en la cama and then left it for Johnny to find. So that’s what that Amber Heard reference was about, for better or for worse.

[19:42] Now we’re gonna dive into Jess’s ambitions for her new business, Venus Enigma. Which is her upcoming hub for women who own businesses and/or work in male-dominated fields. Something that as you’ve heard, Jess has a lot of experience with.

[19:56] Jess: Venus Enigma. My goal, ultimately, like I said, is to reach mainly it’s every woman and anybody who identifies as a woman. Women who are in male dominated industries, any welders, mechanics, aerospace engineers, things like that.

[20:10] But I do wanna open up like events where women can get together. And actually meet up and trade business cards and then chill on the beach and talk about how we run our business and, and get to relax and not do something about business, but we all get to promote each other’s business and support each other. Give each other feedback.

[20:26] Self-defense classes, resume workshops. Especially giving back. Me and my mom have been to a shelter before for a while. So I’d like to get women in a shelter who want to get their head shots taken, resumes fixed up, and then maybe take them to get some clothes, some nice clothes to wear to an interview.

[20:42] Just stuff like that. So more about giving back and like kind of relying on each other as women to help us and not rely on men or the government who really doesn’t care about us. That’s kind of the goal is to be very self-sufficient. And I’m gonna include so many tips on anything from like mental health to physical health, to like financial health and how it all really needs to be up there. And in order for you to like move forward with whatever business you wanna do. And I help women launch their business as well cause I do logos and social media marketing for them.

[21:10] Paulette: That’s awesome. I’m really excited about that. Uh, let me know when there’s a meetup and where I can sign up, because I’m all about community. Like that’s so important. I talk about this a lot about how you need your support system. You need the people who understand what it is you do with the struggles that you have, you know, that can be pretty unique for women in male-dominated industries. Or just who work for themselves. Like that’s a different struggle.

[21:35] It’s awesome that you are doing that. It’s awesome. That you’ve recognized there’s a need for that. And let me know how I can support that cuz I’m in LA too.

[21:41] Jess: Absolutely.

[21:42] Paulette: And I’m all about a girl community like that.

[21:45] Jess: Yes. I’d have to have you a part of it. I’d love for you to tell the women that are there… and it’s crazy that you lift weights because I have, you know, um, trainer, friends, their trainers are certified. Girls who are in jujitsu and, you know, martial arts like that. And I’m gonna invite them to come do self-defense classes or how to lose weight. Um, I also am targeting, you know, women who have health problems because I struggled with three spinal surgeries and weight gain. And yeah, I couldn’t weld, I couldn’t work.

[22:11] I had to sell my car to pay for my surgery because I don’t like, I’m not really in touch with my family. So it felt very, at that time it felt lonely and scary, but I’m trying to come out of the depression of like, my body was taken from me because I had to learn how to walk again. It was really, really tough.

[22:27] I felt like I didn’t have any workbooks I could go to. So I am trying to target people that I felt like I didn’t have like a voice for on the internet or to teach me. And I can be that voice now. Cause I’ve learned so much about working out without hurting your spine or like just making sure your back is okay no matter what age you are. Cause I was 21 when that happened. So you have to be cautious.

[22:48] Paulette: Yeah.

[22:48] Jess: So that’s my bag. Just trying to do like whatever I couldn’t have access to. And now I know the knowledge because I have to garner it myself. Now I can give it to other people and have, you know, use the platform I have because I’m so knowledgeable about it.

[23:00] Paulette: That’s amazing. It’s amazing that you’ve taken what sounds like it was incredibly devastating and such a struggle and turned that into you wanting to give back. And people call childfree people selfish.

[23:15] Jess: Can you believe that? We give so much.

[23:19] Paulette: It’s not just that, but you know, for the, like so many people think that if you don’t have children, you’re selfish or immature? Plenty of selfish and immature people have children. So it’s, it’s, it’s not something that you can only pinpoint on childfree people. And you’ve just, you’ve proven throughout this entire conversation, that that isn’t true for you. I don’t think it’s true for me. And none of the women that I am interviewing this season, we might be selfish about some things, but we know ourselves, we know that not having children is for us.

[23:49] And so we are just self-aware.

[23:51] Jess: Absolutely. I’m so glad you used that term. Self-awareness it’s, it’s literally number one first and foremost what you need to do anything in life. And if you do know you don’t wanna have kids, then you’re not selfish. You’re self-aware, you know that that’s not something you wanna do.

[24:05] And I feel like it’s way more selfless to take in account who you are as a person and not put that on your kid. Because most of the time when you’re not ready for a kid and you just do it because you have a reproductive system that allows you to like, it doesn’t always work out. Like some, some people aren’t meant to have kids.

[24:22] It’s not a bad thing at all, but like, I know I’m probably not meant to have kids. I’m very independent and I don’t, I can’t afford it in any way, shape or form.

[24:31] Paulette: You don’t have to validate it. Like you just don’t want kids, so you’re not gonna have kids. Like that’s that for me is the end of the discussion. And I’m pretty sure that you’re a strong, independent Latina. I can see that just, you know, when I met you for three minutes and now having this conversation for the better part of an hour with you.

[24:48] But a lot of people just don’t get it. A lot of people, especially Latinos, we have kind of this myopic view, like this is the life script. You have children, you raise children and then they have children and that’s just what we are used to, but that doesn’t have to be true for everyone.

[25:05] Jess: Exactly. And you’re right about the validation part. You should be able to just say no, like I that’s not for me. And then move forward instead of people badgering you about or explaining yourself.

[25:13] Paulette: Yeah. Like no’s a full sentence and you don’t have to apologize for it.

[25:17] Jess: Yeah.

[25:18] Paulette: Oh, that’s that’s another one. I haven’t done a podcast episode on that yet, but we’re gonna talk about not saying sorry.

[25:23] Jess: I’m gonna have to tune in on that one, because that was a big struggle of me just being so kind and nice. I always put myself last and always said yes to everything and explained myself and apologized. Yeah. You kind of take away a lot of your power with that. You need to just learn how to say no and be, and you can become more confident that way.

[25:39] Paulette: Yeah. Stop giving away your power.

[25:40] Jess: Mm-hmm .

[25:42] Paulette: Well, since we’ve come to the end of the show, Jess, you know how we end this. Would you please do the deed?

[25:48] Jess: And that’s a burrito.

[25:50] Paulette: Wanna talk about this week’s episode, feel free to DM me on Instagram. My info is always in the show notes. And if you’re looking to be a guest in the future for The Maker Muse Podcast, check out the guest form on my website at the maker muse.co.

[26:03] Yes, the maker muse.co. It’s also linked in the shownotes. And hey, muchisimas gracias for listening to another episode of The Maker Muse Podcast! Are you subscribed? If not now would be a great time to do that. New episodes come out every Tuesday. I’m on Apple, on Spotify, wherever you listen. And then can I ask you a favor? Could you please tell all of your friends and family about it sus amiges, su familia? Because if you love it, they probably will too.

[26:32] And I’d really appreciate it if you could rate and review it wherever you’re listening right now.. ¡Hasta la proxima!